往

I have heard a very strange pronunciation for 往 on a puppet show. The pronunciation used is "báng". Do you have that kind of pronunciation around your area? In 龍岩 the sound is "góang" according to fjsq.

Tim

No such pronunciation in Chaoshan. However, that pronunciation is acceptable, since other characters with the same Mandarin structure "wang" such as 忘亡妄罔 are also pronounced as "buang".

Timluo，汝講布袋戲唸唱有將“往”唸做“báng”，是kan-ta一半擺仔 niā，抑是講定定有按呢teh唸？Ah汝是看tó一團的布袋戲咧，黃俊雄布袋戲抑毋是？

我嘛毋知影因何布袋戲會共“往”唸做“báng”。照講“往”是有兩个呼音，著是“óng”（過往：過身。往事：過去的代誌）佮“éng”（往過／往早：以早）。

In Teochew “往” is normally pronounced as "uáng".

使者，“往”這個字，廣州音是uong，是吧？

In addition, what is 布袋戏 here? Is it the same as the Chaoshan “纸影戏”？

对，是wong，阳上调。怎么啦？

布袋戲是“掌中筊儡（ka-lé：掌中木偶）”，佇福建泉州發源，後來分做漳、泉兩派，路尾佫傳去遘台灣。布袋戲，佮潮州的“紙影戲”無共款。

对，是wong，阳上调。怎么啦？

無啦，罔問一下。

原帖由 輶轩使者 於 2007-9-29 02:39 發表
No such pronunciation in Chaoshan. However, that pronunciation is acceptable, since other characters with the same Mandarin structure "wang" such as 忘亡妄罔 are also pronounced as "buang".

The other characters you quoted all had a labial initial in Middle Chinese, so there's no problem with it. But 往 is different. Maybe it's also an instance of analogy. But from the 龍岩 pronunciation, it might suggest there was a consonant before Middle Chinese, even before 切韻's time. If this holds true, then it should be possible to have a b- sound as g- might change to b- in many instances.

Tim

原帖由 limkianhui 於 2007-9-29 08:33 發表
Timluo，汝講布袋戲唸唱有將“往”唸做“báng”，是kan-ta一半擺仔 niā，抑是講定定有按呢teh唸？Ah汝是看tó一團的布袋戲咧，黃俊雄布袋戲抑毋是？

我嘛毋知影因何布袋戲會共“往”唸做“báng”。照講“往”是有兩个呼音，著 ...

I heard it use "báng" in 往西而行 many times.

It's not 黃俊雄's. It was from a less-known group and I forgot its name as I saw it on TV years ago. At that time, I just thought it could be simply a corruption.

Tim

[ 本帖最後由 timluo 於 2007-9-29 16:40 編輯 ]